Mayor: Six lanes aren’t good for plan
I haven’t found a link, but heard Mayor Court on the radio this morning talking about how six highway lanes to the suburban areas of KV are inconsistent with the sustainable growth goals of PlanSJ.
I think this is a debate worth having.
12 comments:
So, it's OK to spend $28 million on Parking Garages for Peel Plaza, but adding traffic lanes for public safety is "counter to SJs Growth Strategy?"
"Adding lanes make it easier for people to leave the City?"
Dysfunctional Government, Self-serving Decision Makers and Poor Outcomes make it easy to leave Saint John.
47% live outside the City limits... Gee, wonder why?
Six lanes out the the suburbs is totally the wrong solution for a city this size. KV has no public transportation system within the community with the exception of the commuter express buses. Expanding transit infrastructure and modifying ramps to improve efficiency of the system as a whole is a much better and more sustainable solution. I'm not sure why Saint John is stuck in a backwards-thinking mindset when sustainability is such a hot topic everywhere else in the country! As a side note, we should be happy that all of those "dirty energy" projects haven't left the ground and should be focusing on becoming a "green" energy hub and harness wind/tidal power instead.
I'm with David on this one... the late 60's and early 70's push to create the original throughway spawned the growth of the suburbs which resulted in huge missed tax dollars and development opportunities for the City of Saint John for generations. This missed opportunity has resulted in the desperate situation (according to some) that the City -- and hundreds of other cities like it -- is currently facing. Widening the throughway will only exacerbate that -- its a proven scientific theory called the Braess Paradox (look it up) or otherwise called "induced traffic." Many can't seem to see that this is a classic "chicken or the egg" scenario.
Say what you want about City Council, its staff, its decisions or Peel Plaza, etc. but this is the one aspect of modern planning theory where Council is bang on with their position that widening of the highway is bad for the City. There are hundreds and thousands of studies by promient planners and consultants to support this.
Do you honestly think roads cause people to leave?
It's a convenient deflection, I think.
Clean-up the act at home first.
It has to be desirable to live in an area.
It's not the lost tax dollars holding you back... you already almost charge 2x as much $$$... What is it then?
Blame the extra lane.
Blame the fog.
Blame the gas price.
Blame the malls (and all that free parking).
Blame people who live outside the City boundaries.
Continue to think that only SJers have a real-stake or say in what is appropriate or good for the region.
Continue to great grand variances and tax deals that contradicts your own plans/strategies.
Continue to re-elect/elect a sociopathic leadership that misleads and misrepresents its citizens needs and hopes.
But, of course you're right, these things have nothing to do with the situation at hand.
Feeder buses are being added to the Comex. People will be able to catch a bus from the Kingston Ferry (on the Gondola Pt. side).
Clean-up the act at home please... then we can talk.
I don't think population moved to the KV because of easy highway travel. However, with finite government resources I do question the need and wisedom of adding these lanes.
Sustainable communities aren't built through sprawl.
The City of SJ has plenty of problems, as does the greater community. I respect people's choice to live where they want, but don't think it's a given that the province should be spending its very limited resources on making the drive to suburban communities easier.
Yes, I do think the highway has caused people to leave the city. I re-iterate: look up the Braess Paradox and induced traffic -- it is a PROVEN SCIENTIFIC THEORY. There are literally hundreds of cities all over North America that are in the exact same situation because of highway construction and expansion. Saint John is not a unique example by any stretch. Is it the only reason people have left the City? Absolutely not. Has the City made some terrible decisions? Absolutely, but this is not unique to Saint John or any other government. The last thing we need is yet another reason to further destroy the economic engine of Southern New Brunswick. This is what 6 lanes of highway -- and the Braess Paradox! -- can do.
I also appreciate that some people would wither living in a city and others would wither living in the country. City life isn't for everybody, but for every one that moves out of the city limits for the suburbs is one less that is paying towards the services they use or desire that aren't available in their community. This only puts more (but not the only) pressure on Common Council to force up the high tax rate that everyone complains about. Again, this clearly illustrates my previous comment about "the chicken or the egg."
On the other hand, the additional cost of gas and the premium that is paid on housing in the suburbs is far more than the additional tax dollars spent on a house in the city. Do the math -- I dare you! You'll save money living in the city.
And don't give me the argument that "suburbanites shop in Saint John's malls, and buy their gas in Saint John". Fact: A municipality only reaps 8 cents for every 100 cents of tax levied. A person would have to spend more than $31,000 of their disposable income within the city boundaries to make up for one house whose tax assessment would be $2500. The median income in the region is something in the vicinity of $25,000, less 30% to pay for housing, less 5% for servicing debt, less X% for... suddenly there is not enough tax dollars left to compensate for the loss to the suburbs.
Highway expansion is the death of cities. It has been proven time and time again.
I highly recommend doing some research on the subject before making up your mind.
Here's another "PROVEN SCIENTIFIC THEORY"...
- High Crime Rates (especially Violent Crime);
- Poor Education results;
- Intense Concentrations of Poverty;
- Crumbling Infrastructure;
- Overcrowded living options;
- Dysfunctional Political Representation (Local, Prov & Fed)
These are PROVEN and LEGITIMATE reasons, for those who can, to leave.
Things are NOT getting better in SJ.
I don't even think it's possible, any longer.
Make the lane for Buses and carpool only, its a new idea no one has heard of.
I appreciate that these may all be legitimate reasons (to some) to leave the city but these are not justifications for widening a highway. Keep the discussion on topic -- this is discussion on the merits (or not) of widening a highway not a discussion on the pros and cons of Saint John versus KV.
Great... stop the rhetoric: "the highway has caused people to leave the city;" "induced traffic;" "Highway expansion is the death of cities" -- Please... concentrate on making SJ better and making it work.
This is a cheap trick to deflect from the real issues and from those who are truly responsible.
You are letting politicians such as Court and Killen to jump in front of something that is really nothing. Letting them off the hook!
People really want to stay in SJ, but cannot for their families health and wellbeing.
CARPOOL LANE PLEASE CARPOOL LANE PLEASE.
I'm home from university, living in the KV, and I commute Uptown for work. I don't see the need for a third lane both ways (it won't help the problem, which is mostly at the Rothesay Ave. and Airport Arterial interchanges), but Mayor Court's comments reveal an awful lot about city politics. Where was Court nearly a year ago when this project was announced? By speaking out so late, after tenders were made and contracts signed, Court sounds out of touch with what's going on around him and with the folks who are moving to the Valley. It's not the kind of responsive thinking people expect from municipal governments nowadays, and would certainly make me think twice about living in SJ (once I get a chance).
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